Forums - MVC2: The Best anti-air assist Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Strategy & Tactics (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=10) -- MVC2: The Best anti-air assist (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38178) Posted by TheMummy on September 1st, 2001 08:00 AM: MVC2: The Best anti-air assist Which do you think is the best anti-air assist on MVC2? Rank them and tell why. __________________ If The Mummy Returns, ANAKARIS RETURNS!!! Posted by Ducky on September 1st, 2001 08:31 AM: CapCom - Great range, rushdown stopper Ken - Invincibility all the way... Cyclops - Good priority/invincibility and sets up combos nicely I don't know bout the rest, such as Cammy, Psylocke, or any other AAAs... Those 3 are the only ones I use. __________________ ...mess with him and you're out of luck, HE'S A MACHO DUCK!!! MACHO MACHO DUCK, for he is a manly sensation MACHO MACHO DUCK, he's a MACHO MACHO DUCK! MACHO MACHO DUCK, he's the slickest bird in the nation MACHO MACHO DUCK, he's a MACHO MACHO DUCK! Posted by Jakuda on September 1st, 2001 10:21 AM: Oh boy. This topic again. I can write forever on this topic. Here it goes. There is really no "best" AAA assist as each assist have their own strengths/weaknesses and each assist is best paired with a team depending on the team strengths and how it can counter the opposing team. The list of top aaa assists (meaning assists that actually try to protect you from jumpins so no doom/bh) are: cammy, ken, cylcops, commando, psylocke. Maybe a sprinkling of jin or guile or cable. Rankings at the end... Ads/disads for each: Cammy: Unlike what most people believe, she does NOT have a great deal more horizontal reach than Ken. You can verify this yourselves on a Dreamcast. In training mode, if you superjump straight up as you call each assist, Cammy has more horizontal reach the width of "M" in "Max combo." Not much to get all excited about. She slightly higher vertical reach than Ken, about the same distance more. If she hits an average stamina character (Cable) she does 20 points of damage. But she immediately bounces off after hitting a blocking or unblocking char., and loses invincibility. She bounces so quickly that your point character might have a hard time protecting her, unless you super right when she comes out. If you watched the full 10 match series of justin v ricky, there were three or four times when justin called cammy at the wrong time, and didn't have time to cover her, so ricky ahvb's cammy to death. It would have been a different story with either ken/cyclops. Oh, yeah like people have noted she bounces off rocks and stuff... She does however come out a lot quicker than Ken. However, people have noted that she doesn't have invincibility until she starts her move, so you have literaly... a frame or two to hit her before she starts. But that might only happen when your opponent gets too predictable in calling out cammy. You could make the argument that since cammy bounces after hitting the char, and goes off the screen, you can call Cammy more times in a match than Ken...but that's the tradeoff, more usage times vs. less time for point character to protect. Also, like Commando, you can use her in your comboes, b/c it's a one-hit assist and the damage scaling doesn't affect your combo much. Ken: He is invincible all on the way up. If he hits a blocked character or not, he continues all the way up. This gives your point character more time for you to protect him. Ken comes out a bit slower than Cammy. If he gets all 3 hits of his dp on a Cable character it does 23 points. If two hits, 12, if 1 hit, 6 points. That's pretty poor damage. Considering it only gets 3 hits if the opponent is standing close to you, or in the corner perhaps. Otherwise, most jumpins get hit by 1 or 2 hits. 6 or 12 points. Considerable less than cammy/commando. He does well to break up traps. He's one of the most annoying aaa's to play against, IMO Incredibly hard to combo off of. But if you have cable, you can pull off the sj. fierce x ahvb. Or if you ever countercall your opponent's assist, Ken (or cammy for that matter) hits the assist up, you can ahvb as the assist falls. dead assist. Hopefully your opponent will realize this and sj. quickly or teleport behind Cable. Commando: He does a powerful 22 points of damage on a cable-stamina character. He doesn't have much invincibility. Also the horizontal range of the corridor isn't as great as one might think. The vertical range is useful though, against sentinels, storms, and bh's. His assist is combo friendly. ala storm or sentinel His assist is good at eating up space to clear some room for your point character to maneuver. Doesn't do that great a job against a GOOD rushing magneto or storm as one might think, but more on that later. Cyclops: He is one of Cable's best helpers; he helps cable control horizontal and some vertical area, since he comes out in a big capital "J" movement. Cable can comfortably call Cyclops 1/4-1/3 away from another Cable and safely protect cyclops, build meter, and do some small chip damage at the same time. As for protecting cable from jumpins, he does an okay job. Has a more invincibility tha commando until about the 2nd hit (I believe). Most characters can combo off of him as he launches them into superjump height (storm, magneto, doom). Cable uses him for ahvb setups, but it's hard (unless you have great reflexes or anticipate/guess that they get hit) to get 3 AHVB's. Usually it's 2 or only 1 (and be happy with it). Bh's uses him offensively for infinite setups. *shrug* but that's more off topic. Damage is average. 18 points I think or thereabouts. Nothing special. His greatest asset as an AAA is that he makes a great point/final character. He has the goods to make a comeback at the end. Don't underestimate him. Cammy has the tools too, but Cyclops add his battery ability and his massive chipping ability too. Cyclops dashing db+k throw is too nasty. Psylocke: Psylocke is a good assist to protect against rushdown, b/c she really does protect against jumpins. She makes a tight "J" curve coming in, so she protects behind, infront, and slightly above your point character. This is important, b/c against inhumanly fast magneto users, merely tapping your assist button for (ken, cammy, commando, cyclops (ha for cyke) ) is going to bring out your character too slow. You see this all the time as your AAA comes out...just a bit too late, and whiff's magneto-storm's butt. Great. Doesn't do your point character any good. Psylocke actually will hit them. Doesn't do that great damage. I forgot the exact amount (13-17 points? ) Don't think it's more than Cyclops. So people extolling the virtues of Commando's assist...is slightly over optimistic. Yes, commando works great against patternistic rushdowners, over-eager triangle jumpers, but the magneto's or storm's who mix it up, keep you guessing, who surpass that first "rushdown level," won't be too phased by your commando. Now the problem with psylocke, is that she has literally no vertical range. If magneto lands one lucky hit, does some comboes...yadda...dhc's to storm perhaps. Storm can runaway for a long time. Another storm or sentinel can chase her down, but psylocke is definitely a liability in that sense. Cyclops on the other hand can deal with runaway better than psylocke since Storm has to fall down some time, cyclops can take 10% chip everytime. But again, advantages come with disadvantages. Guile: His stupid blade has great diagonal range across the screen. Too bad guile has little invincibility. It does keep airborne opponents in check though: ala sentinel. Jin: he's a fun assist to use. It hits above and on both sides. But he stays in that dumb pose for quite a while though. Cable: he's the poorman's aaa for some teams that don't have a specific aaa: doom/storm/cable, spiral/cable/sentinel, strider/cable/doom. The only good thing, is that he comes out relatively fast, does decent damage, and knocks them way off screen. Gives your point character some time to maneuver, and get ready to protect Cable when they come down. Spiral can do this pretty well. ok...well...if I were forced to rank them...i'd have to look at which assist is the most versatile. Not only as an AAA, but a teammate, point, dhc'er, etc... So it'd be: 1) cyclops 2) commando 3) ken 4) cammy 5) psylocke __________________ -Jakuda "If you're at the table, and you don't spot the sucker in 30 minutes, YOU are the sucker..." Rounders " 'What's a Nubian?' Bitch you almost made me laugh." Chasing Amy Posted by Magento on September 1st, 2001 01:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ducky CapCom - Great range, rushdown stopper Ken - Invincibility all the way... Cyclops - Good priority/invincibility and sets up combos nicely I don't know bout the rest, such as Cammy, Psylocke, or any other AAAs... Those 3 are the only ones I use. I agree cause My top four Characters Are.. In order.. 1.Cyclops-AAA- hes my leader 2.Magneto-Projectile- I dont know why but my brother doesn't like it but if i was in the arcade I probably use Capture 3.Ken-AAA- Very good AAA and I can combo anything into a super.I'm not the best still. 4.CapCom.-AAA-Agree what Ducky Said Posted by dc_guru on September 1st, 2001 02:26 PM: 1. Cyclops 2. Commando 3. Cammy 4. Ken 5. Psylocke __________________ Mag/Cable/Psy -------------- Spiral/Cable/Sent [Avatar created by me!] Posted by Ninjasword on September 1st, 2001 05:40 PM: I like BlackHearts he stays pretty far back and does decent amount of damage it's also good against Dr. Dooms anti air (Toughs annoying flying rocks) __________________ Assassin For Hire! Posted by Elves=Cheating on September 1st, 2001 06:47 PM: A couple things that haven't been mentioned, but you probably already knew... Psylocke's AAA sets up all sorts of combos. Mostly for Mags, but things like the IM infinite, AHVB (but so many things do anyway) and a few unrollable OTGs can also be done out of it. Guile AAA rips through Blackhearts demons if you do it early enough (since it has no invincible start-up). Son-son AAA sets up all sorts of crazy combos. Jin AAA is a shield. Even though the ht area is small you can hide in it as long as the opponent isn't cable and blows your izazz away. A lot of AAAs are better against some teams and worse against others, of course, so the rankings will reflect overall worth. So here's the rankings: 10) Cable 9) Son-Son 8) Jin 7) Cammy 6) Psylocke 5) Guile 4) Ken 3) Cyclops 2) Blackheart 1) Captain Commando Posted by GeekBoy on September 1st, 2001 06:47 PM: No best AAA, only some AAAs are better at doing one thing than someone else. Commando stops rushdown the best Ken stops traps the best Cammy stops flying Sentinels Cyclops sets up air combos pretty well Psylocke starts OTG combos or infinites really well Blackheart AAA is good for stopping turttlers and gives you time for rushdown __________________ GeekBoy: I am the CLIT commander!!! Guides: Cable Iron Man Storm Magneto Dhalsim Doom Spiral Sentinel Strider Posted by DemiDeviMatt on September 1st, 2001 06:55 PM: IMO aaa's r usually to counter the team...there is no best aaa...overall the best aaa might be like BH...but in general there is no best aaa...they r all versitle and usable in diff situations... __________________ Dr. Light: "YOU GOT REVOLUTION DANCE!" (AV Made By the AV god Psycho Squall) Posted by GtXbY32 on September 1st, 2001 06:58 PM: quote: Originally posted by Ducky CapCom - Great range, rushdown stopper STFU .... it is not a rushdown stopper.... i fucking rushdown fast enough to hit bastard commando out before the cap corriodor comes out.... __________________ Alt-0160 (Blank mans secret) mwuahahaha! if u live in irvine and play mvc2 IM me at gtxby32... i need more competition ^_^ Posted by Ouroborus on September 1st, 2001 10:37 PM: quote: Originally posted by GtXbY32 STFU .... it is not a rushdown stopper.... i fucking rushdown fast enough to hit bastard commando out before the cap corriodor comes out.... Idiot! __________________ You must defeat Doom to stand a chance - Strider Hiryu Posted by Dasrik on September 1st, 2001 11:55 PM: For purposes of simplicity, I'm going to define AAA as "an attack that counters attacks on your point man from the air". Therefore, Blackheart, Doom and Ruby Heart are out since their "AAA"s don't fit that definition. The top tier of AAAs are pretty much Cyclops, Psylocke, Captain Commando, Ken and Cammy. They all serve different functions, which has pretty much been explained already. The upper tier of AAAs, however, have some distinguishing uses which make them worthy of consideration, though (at least in fun matches or counterteam matches): JIN's AAA is invulnerable while he flashes white and hits all around. That means, if you see a triangle dash or crossup approaching, hit the assist button and Jin blows them away. Jin's problems is that he poses for awhile and you have to cover him right away. GUILE/CHARLIE's AAA have similar properties with their blade, but their angles make them distinct. Guile's projectile flies more upward than forward, and that angle makes it really good for fighting flighty Sentinels (Guile on point is even good on Sentinel, too.) Charlie's is straight diagonal. It's a handy thing to use on Blackheart. However, their AAAs will miss a close opponent who ducks (Psylocke will do that, too.) CAPTAIN AMERICA's AAA would be better than Cammy's if it had invincibility. It hits as soon as you call it and rises higher, plus it slams the opponent off screen if it connects. Plus, you can use it to trade hits with some assists (Doom) and come out better off, since CapAm will scurry off the screen in a hurry. CABLE's AAA has been gone over already. He also puts a projectile on the screen, and it's probably the most straight up of the "DP + projectile" anti-airs. However, you're putting Cable on the line, which might not be a great idea. Other ones of note are Iron Man, SonSon, Morrigan, Spider-Man and launcher type Sentinel. I'll tell you about them if you ask, right now I'm really tired __________________ The closest thing I feel to happiness is when I'm on the road going to someplace unknown... Posted by Mr. E on September 2nd, 2001 12:19 AM: I think you should count doom and sent since both stop jump ins fairly well. Doom, I guess, is only in my list since it stuffs capcom assist very well, and Sent takes away closs range triangle jumping. Psylocke, imho, is overrated. She's a decent aaa protection wise, but where she truly stands out is helping mags combo. For any other character, there are other aaa's that help their game more. Mags with Psy avoids being reliant on c.hp to do combos, and can actually combo unmashable tempests. Most other characters are better off with a Capcom (sent) or a Cyke (cable). Cyke has gotta be one of my favorite assists. He covers so much goddamn horizontal space, it's ridiculous. Add that to the combo factor of it, well, you got yourself a grade A assist. Only problem is that it has limited vertical reach and doesn't present a significant problem to runaway storm and a flying sent. Capcom is a great assist. It has good invincibility after startup (when Cap gets all electrified), mad damage, and good coverage. However, it does not track well, gets stuffed by a lot of things (doom aaa) and is a detriment at point. Capcom, even with these problems, is a very versatile assist. No assist (save tron, ugh) punishes other assists as well, and no assist stops so many gameplans as easily (flying sent, photon doom, demon BH, etc.). If used wisely, he's very effective at clearing the screen, but, again, is a detriment for most at point. Cammy and ken are very similar, but also very different. Cammy tracks better, does better average damage, and comes out quicker. Ken's more invincible, safer, and more invincible. Both have good vertical reach, and good horizontal reach. IMO, cammy's great at stopping rushdown and sent. Probably better than ken. But, ken's a very good anti-cable, anti-trap assist. At point, both are very good, high 2nd tier characters. Ken's shoryureppa is invincible through startup, and well, there's always the hurricane kick glitch to abuse. Cammy has better reach, speed, and mobility, but requires supers to do any decent damage. Jin is a great assist. It has basically no startup, covers a surprising amount of space, stops most rushdown cold, but he just sucks at point. Also, no vertical reach/comboability is a major problem since it doesn't do much damage. Oh yeah, jin has a tendency to get punished. Did I mention he sucks at point? Guile, I'm fairly iffy on. It's great at doing certain things (stopping flying sent and other stay above the guy characters), quick to come out, but very little invincibility (if any) and very little damage potential. I'm not that used to using it either, so, I'm gonna say most of my comments above are crap . I love doom aaa. It's fairly decent at stopping rushdown, and has decent invincibility. Once the rocks get going, nothing neutralizes them, and well, chipping. Plus, doom's a good point man. Problem is that it has no vertical reach and delay in startup. But, it does setup IM infinite and cable (well, what doesn't). Son son deserves to be on this list. She does really good damage with her assist, and it covers significantly more space than most of the others listed. She sucks at point, and takes damage like a little monkey girl (oh whoops, she is a little monkey girl), but it still good at clearing things out. I would rate my assists: cyke/ken/capcom as #1 They all do different things, but all do them equally well. Cyke does a myriad of things well, ken stops traps, and Capcom kills assists and big characters. cammy/doom are a very close #2. I would rate cammy higher, but she bounces off too many things. Doom would be higher if this wasn't a strictly "aaa" discussion. Psylocke cuz of Mags is #3. Son son Jin Guile These last three, I'm very iffy on. Cable, I'm not gonna put in here, since I'm not sure if you're allowed to take cahvb into consideration. If so, he would certainly be up there. Aside from that, though, I don't like him as an aaa that much, he's just too valuable at point to take damage as an assist. Posted by CaBlE36 on September 2nd, 2001 12:26 AM: quote: Originally posted by Ouroborus Idiot! whats a matter u cant rushdown as fast as me assfuck? oh wait ur just a chipper.... __________________ current MCV2 team: Cable AAA Cyclops AAA Jin Expansion current PJ team: Akira, Momo, Shoma Posted by Cornelius on September 2nd, 2001 01:08 AM: I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but Storm can hailstorm after a Ken AAA. Chun-Li AAA is GREAT, good horizontal/vertical, good priority but no invincibility. She hits for a such a STUPID amount of time it's disgusting. the combo possibilities are endless. She doesn't suck it half as hard on point as most people think, either. She has a good air dash, heel stomp hi-lo tactics, good air combo, and very DHCable supers. Although very difficult to do, and very impractical in any serious match, Iron Man's (and probably War Machine's) AAA do INSANE damage if all the hits (7, I think) connect. Launcher assists, or "Ghetto AAAs" are all useless except for Sent's, who is such a pimp it's not even funny. He's the biggest assist shield in the game, and his launcher has insane priority. Most teams would much rather him be on projectile or ground type, though. Other Ghetto AAA's are good for counter XX super, like Silver Sammy and Mags. Also something to note...all AAA's except IM/WM's put your opponent in unfly mode. All times are GMT. The time now is 10:52 PM. Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.0 Release Candidate 3 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.